Cycling the Kettle Valley Railway
News from the Kettle Valley Railway
January - December 2004
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2003 2004 2005
2006 2007 New
Dec 16, 2004
Zacks Tenting, Beaverdell B.C.
RE Zacks Tenting.. I Imagine alot of people out there have camped at this
gtreat site...Tradgically Zacks Log home was destroyed by fire December 3,
2004.The community, friends are greatly saddened by the loss suffered by Zack...A
fun raiser is in the works, if you would like to contribute make your donation
to box #51, Beaverdell, B.C. V0H1A0 Canada..Your generosity would be greatly
Sept 29, 2004
Kevin Stein email@example.com
I have read several postings and would like to contribute regarding the complaints
of atv use on the abandoned railgrades.
Neil Honkanen states in his post "On July 7, 2004, I cycled from Osprey
Lake, B.C. to Princeton, B.C. and found that heavy use of ATVs on the trail
is damaging the trail surface. ATV use loosens the surface and turns it from
a very hard compact surface into loose gravel which makes for extremely difficult
cycling. At several points along the trail I measured between 1 and 2 inches
of loose gravel on the trial surface. This makes for very heavy cycling with
a fully loaded bike."
This statement is false. The reason that the railgrade has such flat hard
surfaces is FROM the many atvs that have been accessing this trail for years
and have pushed the loose gravel aside as can be seen on many miles of the
KVR. Those 2 hard paths aren't made from skinny bike tires! The places where
there is still loose gravel will always be there until some large equipment
can completely remove the loose ballast and bring in a material that can be
packed. I agree that horses with a small footprint and sharp horseshoes do
turn up the hard ground, but they aren't frowned upon as atvers are!. As well,
a bicycle will do more damage then a responsibly operated atv. The reason
for this is simple physics. The area of an atv tire that touches the ground
has a far larger square inch surface and also has 4 tires and therefore the
psi (pounds per square inch) is much lower then that of a bicycle. If you
will think about a bicycle travelling across deep sand or gravel, it is very
hard to do this as the tires sink into the surface. I have tried this experiment
with my own mountain bike on a gravel surface then drove my atv across the
same ground. The bike tires sank into the gravel from 1-2 inches and it was
very difficult to pedal the bike through it. The atv went across the gravel
and left almost no impression in the gravel (less then 1/4"). If I were
to improperly operate the atv and spin the tires, then of course if would
make ruts as deep as the bike tires. A bike tire can also make ruts in all
types of surfaces if rode irresponsibily by locking the brakes up and skidding
the rear tire. I live near Castlegar and have rode the C&W rail line from
Castlegar to Christina Lake many times and if it weren't for the atv usage,
the entire railgrade would be impossible to ride for the average bike rider
because of the loose gravel. As well, the atv users have contributed to this
trail in regards to maintenance. We have rebuilt many parts that have washed
out, we have broken up and removed all the large rocks and boulders from the
rockslide before Coykendahl, we have cut numerous windfalls and pruned back
the bushes that are making the trail very narrow.
I have always shared the C&W trail with all other users, and had a friendly
wave for them as they ride or walk by. If I see another user, I will slow
down to a crawl long before passing them to avoid raising dust. What would
the bicyclists and hikers think if it was the motorized users that were trying
to ban the hikers and bikers from that trail? After all WE were the original
users after the tracks were removed and have always maintained the trail.
The first time I see a mountain biker with a chainsaw, axe, or shovel attached
to his bike, I will gladly buy him dinner and drinks at the nearest restaurant!
I will gladly listen to any responses to this post, both positive or negative,
but please leave the immature rants out! If anyone would like to see the difference
between bike and atv tires and the impact on different soils, I would be happy
to meet with them and demonstrate this.
Sept 29, 2004
Dec 10, 2004
Dan Langford firstname.lastname@example.org
Re: Atv usage
There is a lot of complaints out there about ATVs destroying the railbed for
cycling and since Kevin has mentioned that physics provides the answer to
this controversy maybe it's time to look at the real physics of what's going
with ATVs and bikes on the railway. First off, pressure on the railbed surface
by the tires of bikes or ATVs has little to do with the destruction of the
surface as Kevin contends. Rain drops hit the surface with a greater force
then the tires of ATV's or bikes and rain drops actually compact and consolidate
What's really destroying the surface is tire scuffing. What contributes to
First ATV tires as well as bike tires present a circular front profile to
the railbed. This means as they roll across a surface the outside edges of
the tires, which are a different circumference then the center line of the
tire, are dragged along the surface in order to keep up to the center of the
tire. This results in scuffing the surface and loosing up the consolidated
sand and gravel of the railbed.
Second problem is that inevitably ATVs rarely have tires that are aligned
to any degree of precision. With four tires on the ground, one, if not two,
will be dragged laterally to the direction of travel.
Third, as with any four wheel vehicle, as soon as you turn the wheels you
cause scuffing between all four wheels as neither can follow a proper circular
track as each is being pushed laterally by the others. Also due to the width
of the tire the inside and outside edges must scuff the road surface to keep
in pace with the center of the tire.
So lets have a closer look at what's going on. For the ATVs I ran around to
my neighbours and measured up 5 ATVs and then took the conservative average.
For the numbers for the bike I used my own bike.
Lets look at scuffing due to the front circular profile of the tire.
If the center of the tire traveled 1 metre, the outside edge of the tire in
contact with the ground would have traveled less since the diameter (d2) (and
therefore the circumference of the outside edge) is less then the tire center.
The difference in distance we will call the scuff distance (sd) as shown in
the track of the tire below.
To compare the scuffing of the railbed by ATVs and bikes lets compare the
scuff area generated by the tires rolling across a surface for a distance
of 1 metre. The scuff area (in red) is shown below after the tire has rolled
1 metre. It is defined as the area scuffed by the outside edges of the tire
being dragged by the center (scuff area: sa)
Note: assume the center of the tire does not scuff, r is the section profile
of the tire tread which is not necessarily the radius of the wall of the tire.
For the ATV r = 0.1524m, d = .5m, the function is integrated from -5/8r to
5/8r which was the averaged measured contact width of the tire tread. Giving
a scuff area (sa) of .00404 sqm for each tire
For the bike r = .05334m, d = .67m, the function is integrated from -1/2r
to 1/2r which was the measured contact width of the tire tread of the bike
(30 psi 2.1inch tire). Giving a scuff area (sa) of .0001842 sqm for each tire.
Now lets look at the lateral scuffing caused by misaligned tires. The ATVs
I checked all had varying degrees of misalignment but in all cases front alignment
was off by more then a degree and in some cases rear alignment exceeded one
For our calculation lets take the alignment of the front tire out by one degree
which is less if not much less then what I found on my neighbours machines.
This lateral scuff area (lsa) can be looked at as the area you would have
to slide the tire back to put it in proper relation after it traveled one
metre on it's own misaligned course. It would be represented as the area in
Of course bikes don't have this problem.
As for the scuffing caused by turning a vehicle with 4 wide wheels, this
calculation can be quite involved and quite variable. Just taking a brief
look at it, it can be a large contributor to the scuffing of the tires on
the rail bed. Not much of the KVR is very straight so there will be scuffing
caused by following the curves of the KVR, but also course corrections in
keeping an ATV going in a straight line will cause scuffing. But for now lets
just look at what we have and we will ignore any contribution due to turns.
If we take the ratio (n) of the scuff area of the ATV to the bike we would
This shows that the ATV would cause 52 times the scuffing to the rail bed
surface as compared to a bike, or it would take 52 bikes riding down the rail
bed to create the same scuff damage as 1 ATV! ( I calculated this ratio for
each of the ATVs I looked at and a couple of them exceeded 100) One thing
to note is that the vast majority of ATVs on the KVR are local or based at
one location so they travel out and back whereas the vast majority of bikes
are through travelers and a real life representation of this ratio would actually
be double that calculated:
n = 105.76
So what does this mean.
The wear and tear on the railbed by one ATV represents the same wear and
tear 105 international travelers on bikes would create.
In economic terms this is huge! When looked at in terms of hotel rooms, B&B's,
campsites, meals, winery visits, etc the cost of one ATV on the railbed is
very expensive. The real sad part is that a small number of B&B's and
lodges along the KVR are doing ATV tours. All of these are out and back and
if you use this calculation a tour of 10 ATV's would create the same impact
on the rail bed as 1050 cyclists. To an ATVer this type of damage is inconsequential
as his wide tires and lack of providing his own power to propel his machine
through the loose surface does nothing to take away from his enjoyment of
the ride. To a cyclist this loose surface will end a bike trip quickly. In
fact on a trip in 2001, with a group of international cyclists, I was embarrassed
by the condition of the railbed around Grand Forks. It had been reduced to
a soft loose surface that many in my group could not navigate their bikes
through. Many started to question why they flew to Canada to cycle what had
been advertized as one of the premeir rail trails in the world only to suffer
through the type of trail conditions we met. Most could not understand how
anyone would destroy the trail and the wonderful resource that the KVR was
to the Province of BC by riding ATVs on it. Once out of the ATV travelled
area the railbed returned to it's usual hard packed surface. When I returned
home to write the 3rd edtion of the book I almost suggested that cyclists
pick up a shuttle at Christina Lake and bypass Grand Forks and get back on
the railway closer to Niagara to bypass this ATV destroyed section.
Getting back to Kevin's other comments, I have never seen an ATVer on the
KVR with the equipment mentioned though I have seen hunters in trucks with
said equipment. Cars and trucks have very little of the scuff problems that
I calculated. By the way the dust you mentioned in both above and your response
to John below is the consequence of tire scuffing.
Oct 7, 2004
John Swift email@example.com
RE posting: Sept 29, 2004 by Kevin Stein firstname.lastname@example.org, regarding Atv
This is a "must" reply to Kevin Stein!! The serious problem here is "Not"
the ATVs, dirt bikes, pickup trucks, farm machinery, horseshoes, bikes, or
hiking boots. The source of the "problem" here is the inconsiderate attitude
of the humans using the recreational resources. There is nothing "false" in
the posted statement of Neil Honkanen! The Princeton Subdivision has very
quickly degraded into the worst (unacceptable) surface conditions between
Castlegar and Kingsvale. The worst areas are just west of Faulder, and the
flats around Osprey Lake. The absolute cause of this rapid deterioration is
from the increased usage by ATVs and dirt bikes during the past two years.
The posted signs between Faulder and Tulameen, stating "no motorized use allowed"
are ignored, the large barrier boulders at road crossings are pushed aside,
and newly installed steel barrier posts are totally ineffective.
Kevin, let me show you how my 21 speed Rocky Mountain bike can burn rubber,
dig tandem brake hole traps in the gravel grade, and leave behind multi dozens
of broken beer bottles, and still burning camp fires. There was even a blue
Toyoto truck that a long-time local resident of Osprey Lake abandoned two
years ago on the TransCanada Trail. Last June /03, while stopped along the
Osprey section before the general store. I had to, at the last minute, extend
my left arm out to fend off a dirt biker from damaging my bike and myself.
I was totally stopped and still straddling the bike bar, and yes I always
keep to the right-hand side of any travelled surface. That dirt biker was
too close without reason, and was travelling too fast. The Tulameen settlement
area of the TransCanada trail is also very risky from mechanized traffic at
Kevin, are you going to fly me Kamloops-Castlegar return for my free restaurant
meal? Or, are you going to entertain me in Kamloops? If Kamloops, I'll show
you some of the serious ATV damage around Links Lake-Cherry Creek I'll also
present you with copies of the cougar, bear, deer, coyote, fox, rabbit pictures
taken on my Castlegar-Kamloops bike rides over the C&W-KVR twice a year during
the past ten years. Consider the outdoors' experience an extension of your
living room carpet, not a landfill or sewage lagoon.
Thanks, John Swift email@example.com (the information on this line
is an "alias" to foil website spam harvesters)
Oct 12, 2004
Kevin Stein firstname.lastname@example.org
Re: Atv usage
John (or whatever your real name is!), I would like to think that you and
others honestly believe that the main problem isn't atv's, bike's, hiker's,
etc, but the majority of comments regarding rough trails, garbage left behind
and so on have lead people to believe that atvers are the main contributor.
Unfortunately a very small percentage of atvers have irresponsibly done damage
and left beer cans behind, but people like myself do pick up after these morons
and also do trail maintenance of some sort on almost every ride.
I still stand by my statement that Neil Honkanen's post has false information
in it. Again, some trails have been disturbed by irresponsible atvers/dirtbikers,
but speaking in regards to the C&W Railway, the loose sections are there because
the ballast is too deep to have been pushed out to the sides by the atv tires.
You say that the signs have been ignored by atvers, and I don't blame them,
as many of the "no motorized vehicles" signs have been placed illegally by
non-motorized users as there has never been a governing body who has stated
those trails are specifically set aside for a certain user group. The C&W
Railway has only recently been handed over to Trails BC and it is still undecided
as to whether or not it will be multi-use involving atvs. This is my reason
for defending atv use on any abandoned railway as I have used the C&W since
the day it was no longer being used by trains. I have cleaned out culverts,
rebuilt washed out areas, broke up boulders to clear several rock slides and
cut many fallen trees along side dozens of other atvers as well as other non-motorized
users who hitched a ride on our atvs! I'm certain that if it was possible
to carry a chainsaw, shovel and pick-axe on their bikes, they would, but since
that isn't possible, they have relied on atvs to help maintain the trail.
I'm not certain why you would extend your arm out to "defend" yourself from
a dirtbike! The idiot riding the dirtbike sounds like he was definitely in
the wrong, but common sense would tell me to move myself off the trail if
some maniac was approaching at a high rate of speed! It may have been on a
corner, and since you could hear him coming, again common sense would tell
you that you can detect him coming, but if on a blind corner, he would not
know you're there! Of course I am speculating on the situation and am sure
you will correct me! The only way for atvs to co-exist on multiuse trails
is for them to ride like I do which is maintain a responsible speed, slow
down on all corners, especially blind ones, slow down to a crawl as soon as
seeing another trail user to avoid raising dust as well as reducing noise,
carry out what they carry in as well as cleaning up after the litterbugs.
Lastly, no I will not fly anyone anywhere for any meal! But if you happen
to be doing the ride from Castlegar to Christina lake, contact me and I will
bring out my little chainsaw, shovel and pickaxe and let you carry them on
your bicycle the few km to the first washout where we have previously used
them, and at that point I will take the items off your hands and meet you
in Christina lake to buy you supper and drinks!
I liked your last sentence, and could not agree more with it! "Consider the
outdoors' experience an extension of your living room carpet, not a landfill
or sewage lagoon." I don't want to waste much more space on this "news column"
with this debate going on here, so if you would like to continue it, please
send me an email.
Kevin Stein rks442@hotmail Not an alias, and I will gladly accept any responses
to this post!
Steve in Vancouver email@example.com
As always, thanks Dan 'n Sandra for your dependable info and expertise. No matter
how often we all head out on the ol' KVR....always need that book baby! Next edition,
will it include Vancouver Island.....good but respectably easy riding there. Nice
way to finish the season...with a 'pint' in Sooke, watchin' the autumn leaves
fall... About the 26th of August, a Dutch couple rode the CW/KVR from Castlegar....I
ran into them again at Kettle River camp.....the fellow was sportin' a tall dangling
piece of 'Bike Art' suspended at the rear of his bike which looked like a two
foot atom-like-thing on a flagpole. If this is kindly posted, and they read this....I'm
very interested how their ride went....but most importantly, (1)Did the bike-art
survive, (2) Where's the artwork off to next,and (3) Did anyone receive a concussion
while trying to pass this marvellous thing !!! (also, thanks for the beer!) Thanks
again to all...nice to meet you on the trail, or share info on this right good
site. Let's get busy resting those knees 'n butts for next season Steve W.
Sept 26, 2004
I have a webpage describing my trip on the KVR from Castlegar to Hope www.lee_wheel.crazyguyonabike.com
Sept 8, 2004
Owen Smith, firstname.lastname@example.org,
Summerland to Princeton report
Just returned from a three day trip from Summerland to Princeton with my wife.
We started out Saturday by taking the steam train from the bridge up to the station.
The first day on the trail is slow going as the trail surface is a bit sandy.
Just bad enough to slow you down but not considered an obstacle. We camped just
after the first bridge (where we rolled the bikes across the log to get across
the river. On the west side of this stream crossing is a beautiful little camping
spot where we spent the night. Our next night was spent at the BCFS Campground
at Chain Lake, the campground attendant provided drinking water from his tank.
The last day was great as it was all downhill. Highly recommend doing this trip
in the westerly direction since you can coast downhill into Princeton. I don't
think you could coast going down into Summerland due to the gentler grade and
soft trail conditions. Overall an excellent ride and can't wait to do it again
when the bridges are repaired (crossing fingers!)
Owen & Janet
Sept 4, 2004
Steve in Vancouver, email@example.com
Cowichan Rail Trail
Has anyone rode the Cowichan (not the sweater) Rail Trail on Vancouver Island,
Info welcome. Steve in Vancouver
Sept 1, 2004
Nicholas Lanfear firstname.lastname@example.org
Hi Dan, Can you (or anyone else) provide any updates on the Brookemere-Hope stretch?
I am aware of the availability of the pipeline road but am curious as to anyone's
recent experience along this route. Does one have to ride on the Coquihalla Hwy
much nowadays? Any tips would be appreciated. As well does anyone know of any
REASONABLE (price-wise) B&B/hotel accommodations between Tulameen and the Coquihalla
Lodge? Thanks, Nick
August 30, 2004
Frauke and George Delisle
Little Dipper Hideaway, Campground and B&B
Hi Dan, thank you very much for responding so quickly. I would like cyclists to
know that we are an easy days ride from Midway, especially if that's their first
day. Here, at the Little Dipper Hideaway, awaits them a cooling dip in the river
and then a great homecooked meal, if they so wish ( we will take dinner reservations,
special diatary needs should be stated beforehand. Dinner not included in the
B&B price of $85.00 for two people, which however includes a full country breakfast.
Lunch can be provided for a little extra.) Cyclists, who want to camp, can also
make dinner reservations, in case they don't feel like cooking. Hopefully, this
gives you a bit of an idea, as to what we are all about. The rest just needs to
be experienced! We'll update you as changes are made.
Thanks again, Frauke and George Delisle, Little Dipper Hideaway, Campground and
P/S The B&B will be open year round.
August 28, 2004
DiAnne Hewitt email@example.com
Several of us are planning a trip Sept 4-8 from Summerland to Brookmere. We are
hoping to find a place close the Kettle Valley Steam Railways- Canyon View siding.
We are arriving in the evening Saturday and hope to camp somewhere close to the
siding where we can catch the mornning train Sunday. Does anyone know of a place
that is close to the CV Siding where we can camp and leave our vehicles. Also,
does anyone have recent trail conditions? Some of what I've been reading is saying
that the ATV have loosened up the railbed and its tough riding? True?
What is the trail like between Princeton and Brookmere. That will be our longest
day and if trail conditions are bad we may want to rethink doing that many miles
in one day. If we choose to break that into two days, any recommendations as to
a good place to camp? I am grateful for any information or advice.
Aug. 27, 2004
Ministry of Small Business and Economic Development Office of the Premier Western
Economic Diversification Canada
NEW "SPIRIT OF 2010 TRAIL" LAUNCHED TO ENHANCE TOURISM - 2004SBED0034-000669
PENTICTON – The Province and community partners will invest $4.2 million to launch
a new Spirit of 2010 Trail network that will link 18 B.C. communities through
converted recreational rail corridors, creating new jobs and increasing tourism,
announced Premier Gordon Campbell and the Honourable Stephen Owen, Minister of
Western Economic Diversification and Minister of State (Sport).
“Tourists and communities alike will gain from this world-class trail network,”
said Owen. “Community-led investments like these today mean lasting social, environmental
and economic opportunities tomorrow. The governments of Canada and B.C. are working
together to lay the foundation for a strong, sustainable future in B.C.”
“The Spirit of 2010 Trail will be a lasting legacy for B.C. that will increase
tourism and create new jobs, while also promoting physical activity and preserving
local history,” said Campbell. “Working together with the federal government and
communities, we are establishing a new, upgraded trail network that will open
up our world-class tourism attractions and help attract new visitors from across
The Government of Canada, through Western Economic Diversification Canada, is
providing $2.1 million through the Softwood Industry Community Economic Adjustment
Initiative. This initiative helps forest-dependent communities that were affected
by the U.S. softwood lumber tariffs. The program helps communities create opportunities
for economic development that will stimulate investment and job creation. The
province and its partners, including Tourism British Columbia and four regional
districts, will contribute a total of $1.658 million. The Trans Canada Trail Foundation
is providing the remaining $415,000.
“The Spirit of 2010 Trail is a great new tourism asset that perfectly embodies
the Super, Natural British Columbia brand,” said Mike Duggan, chair of Tourism
British Columbia. “It is a very marketable product that is sure to stimulate new
visitor activity across all the tourism regions it touches.”
The Spirit of 2010 Trail network encompasses approximately 700 km of existing
rail corridors that cross the Central Kootenays, Kootenay Boundary, Okanagan Similkameen
and Cowichan Valley regional districts. The four trails to be improved as part
of the Spirit of 2010 Trail network are:
· Kettle Valley Railroad Rail Trail: Brodie Station – Princeton; Princeton – Summerland;
Penticton – June Springs; Myra Station – Beaverdell; Beaverdell – Rock Creek;
Rock Creek – Midway; Midway – Grand Forks; Grand Forks – Christina Lake; Christina
Lake – Castlegar.
· Slocan Rail Trail: South Slocan – Slocan.
· Salmo – Troupe Rail Trail: Salmo – Ymir/Nelson/Troupe.
· Cowichan Valley Rail Trail: Lake Cowichan – Shawnigan Lake.
Funds from the partnership will support improvements such as culvert repairs,
rock scaling, tunnel assessment, trailhead development, trestle decking and railings,
new bridge construction, trail surfacing, community access, and signage. Trail
improvements and related construction are expected to be complete by the spring
“The improvements to this trail network are not only an incredible benefit to
the various Regional Districts but an incredible benefit to the province,” said
Dan Ashton, chair of the Okanagan Similkameen Regional District. “Interconnecting
the regions with this improved trail network will be an economic and recreational
opportunity for everyone.”
“The Trans Canada Trail Foundation is pleased to support the Spirit of 2010 Trail
with Opportunity for Trans Canada Trail with a grant of $415,000,” said the foundation’s
president and CEO John Bellini. “Work on the Cowichan Valley and Kettle Valley
Rail Trails will ensure that the Trans Canada Trail is complete by 2010.”
The trails will be accessible for activities such as cycling, hiking, horseback
riding and nordic skiing. Based on benefits created by other rails-to-trails projects
elsewhere in North America, the Spirit of 2010 Trail network is expected to create
up 250 jobs over five years as well as increased tourism spending. Communities
will further benefit from increased recreational and transportation opportunities,
improved community health and environmental preservations.
Federal funding for this initiative was provided for in the March 2004 budget.
A map of the Spirit of 2010 Trail network is available at www.spiritof2010trail.ca
Province of British Columbia
August 26, 2004
Ministry of Water, Land and Air Protection, Office of the Premier, Government
$13.5 MILLION TO RE-BUILD MYRA CANYON TRESTLES - 2004WLAP0047-000668
KELOWNA – Reconstruction of the historic Myra Canyon trestles destroyed by wildfire
will begin this fall thanks to a $13.5-million partnership between the provincial
and federal governments, Premier Gordon Campbell and Senator Ross Fitzpatrick
“The Myra Canyon trestles are a national treasure, a major tourism asset for the
Okanagan economy and an invaluable part of our provincial heritage,” Campbell
said. “The loss of the trestles was a devastating blow, and their reconstruction
is a priority for us all. The same spirit of co-operation that helped us face
the fires last summer has allowed governments, the community and local residents
to work together to rebuild these vital pieces of B.C.’s history.”
Twelve of the 16 wooden trestles were destroyed and two steel trestles damaged
last summer when the wildfire swept through Myra-Bellevue Protected Area. In October,
Premier Campbell appointed a task force to develop a recovery and restoration
plan. The task force included representatives from the federal, provincial and
local governments and the Myra Canyon Trestle Restoration Society. Working from
recommendations of a steering committee, the task force selected a plan that includes
a combination of scaled-down and historic look-alike rebuilds.
Campbell said reconstruction is expected to begin in October on Trestle #18, adding
that the reconstruction plan calls for all work to be complete in 2007. Under
the government of Canada’s Disaster Financial Assistance Arrangements (DFAA),
the federal government will contribute up to 90 per cent of the eligible expenses
associated with the restoration costs, and the provincial government will fund
the remaining amount.
“The government of Canada is committed to helping British Columbia restore the
historic trestles that were damaged or destroyed by the forest fires of 2003,”
said the Honourable D. Ross Fitzpatrick, Senator for Okanagan-Similkameen, on
behalf of the government of Canada. “The residents of British Columbia can be
assured that our governments will continue to work together to help them rebuild
their communities and a national historic site for all Canadians to enjoy.
” The Myra Canyon Trestle Restoration Society, which has already raised more than
$400,000 in additional funds for enhancements such as interpretive displays and
programs that will be included in the restoration, will oversee the reconstruction.
“Since 1992, the society has led the effort to restore the Myra Canyon corridor
and trestles, transforming it into one of British Columbia's most popular hiking
and cycling trails,” said Ken Campbell, past president of the Myra Canyon Trestle
Restoration Society and a member of the Premier's Task Force. “We have been involved
in the recovery plan process and our members and volunteers look forward to participating
fully in the reconstruction.
” Built between 1912 and 1914 by Canadian Pacific Railway, the trestles were part
of the Kettle Valley Railway that linked the centre and southeast regions of the
province with the main railway at Hope. Decommissioned in 1973, the rail line
was purchased in 1990 by the Province and transformed into one of British Columbia’s
most popular hiking and cycling trails. In January 2003, just seven months before
the wildfire, the Myra Canyon section of the Kettle Valley Railway, now part of
the Trans Canada Trail, was named a National Historic Site.
In May 2004, the province converted the majority of Myra-Bellevue from a Protected
Area to a Class A Provincial Park.
Each year, 50,000 people visit Myra Canyon and its trestles, generating $5 million
in economic benefit
Province of British Columbia
August 26, 2004
Kettle Valley Trestles Money
BC-Wildfires-Trestles-update (funds announced)
KELOWNA -- The federal and provincial governments are putting up 13.5 (m) million
dollars to rebuild the Kettle Valley railway trestles destroyed by wildfires
last summer near Kelowna. Premier Gordon Campbell and Senator Ross Fitzpatrick
have announced the work in the Myra Canyon will begin this fall. Campbell says
the trestles are a national treasure and their loss was a devastating blow,
but he says the spirit that helped B-C through the fires last summer will also
see the bridges re-built. Twelve of the 16 wooden trestles were destroyed and
two steel trestles damaged when the Okanagan Mountain Park fire roared through
the area one year ago. The same fire destroyed more than 200 homes in Kelowna.
The trestles will be rebuilt to appear the same as the ones that were lost and
all the work should be complete by 2007. The original spans were built by the
Canadian Pacific Railway between 1910 and 1916 but the line was abandoned in
the 1980's, becoming a draw for hikers and cyclists
August 24, 2004
Brookmere to Princeton
My fiancée, Tanya, and I just returned from an excellent cycling trip on the
KVR from Brookmere to Penticton. We started on the morning of August 17th in
Brookmere. The trail from Brookmere to Princeton is quite good even with loaded
bikes. Our next day was our hardest UPHILL through the Jura loops, which were
beautiful. From Princeton to the tunnel at Erris the trail is pretty good but
after the tunnel the horses and ATV’s have really caused loose conditions that
made the ride very difficult. We spent the night camped at the Jellico station
B&B. Les and Darleen Sirokai were the most welcoming hosts and we really enjoyed
our stay. We had the opportunity to speak with Richard from Kettle Valley Railway
ATV tours who happens to be a member of the Vermillion trails and he said they
are continuing to try and find ways to make that section of trail accessible
to everyone. I personally think that this trail will be harder to maintain if
we exclude certain users. The next day we spent heading towards Summerland and
the trail was much improved. The short cut around the upper trout creek bridge
is very rough and steep. We missed the turn off to the kettle valley steam railway
to prairie Valley Station but we retuned on Saturday and had a great time. The
people that run the KVRSR are the best and if you ask nicely maybe Felix will
serenade you with German love songs!! The trout creek trestle was under repair
so we swam in the lake and waited out the heat. We rode the final 12 km to Penticton
on the highway. Your book was very helpful and we will be planning to do Penticton
to midway as soon as the Myra canyon is sorted out. Daryl Foster
August 23, 2004
3 Lakes Store
Was just up at Bankeir (between Summerland and Princeton) on the weekend and
wanted to let you know the "3 Lakes Store" is now closed. There was a sign on
the trail advising that water and basic supplies could be found at Chain Lake
through the camp ground host.
August 22, 2004
Carmi Sub Update
We did a McCulloch Lake to Midway KVR cycle last week. Here are some of our
observations. McCulloch Lake Resort is closed completely. There is a caretaker
there who said that the varies owners are planning to reopen in September. The
trail from McCulloch to Beaverdell is in about as good condition as it gets.
The new bridge at Wilkinson Creek eliminates any need to detour or to get your
feet wet. In Beaverdell we stayed at Zack’s Tenting for the night. Excellent
basic clean accommodations. We stayed in one of his rooms but he has great areas
for tenting. Give him some business, we were the only ones staying there that
night. The trail to Rock Creek is in fair to good condition a little more loose
rock and rougher surface and some detouring required but still a good cycle.
DO NOT try to be “more adventuresome” at Km. 42.8 as the book suggests because
there is not a sensible place to ford the river plus it is to deep even in August.
The picture on page 52 of the 3rd edition is not fording Kettle Valley River
but of Wilkinson Creek. So take the Blythe-Rhone detour. Met Paul Lautard, he
is looking good and so is his rest stop He came down with a big jug of cold
water that was much appreciated. Stayed at the Grouse Ridge B&B 10Ks up Hwy.
3. Carol and Wilf are great hosts they picked us up in Rock Creek and served
us a fabulous dinner and breakfast at their hilltop home. The next morning it
was an easy coast back down to Rock Creek. The short stretch from R.C. to Midway
is mostly on the road and through farmer’s fields. There are some rough sections
and many gates but well worth doing as it is quite scenic along the riverbank.
For the entire 3-day ride we only saw a couple other cyclists. It seems that
everyone thinks the whole KVR went up in flames last year. Spread the word that
it is in great condition and doing fine.
Matt & Barb Taylor
Aug. 18th 2004 Vancouver British Columbia
August 21, 2004
Dan/Sandra – First of all, I just bought the third edition of your book Cycling
the Kettle Valley Railway. Congratulations. An excellent book, full of good
information on the TCT, beautiful photos, etc
. I am a 68 year old experienced cyclist (been riding for almost 30 years after
giving up my car). I’ve cycled over many of the mountain passes in the west
including the Coquihalla, Manning Pass, Paulson Pass, Rogers Pass, Kicking Horse
Pass, etc. But I’m getting older, and looking for an easier route east from
Hope. Four years ago I cycled through the Fraser Canyon on my way to Winnipeg.
My route took me through the canyon, east to Revelstoke, south to Nakusp, New
Denver, Slocan and Nelson, then east across Kootenay Lake, south to Creston,
then east on No 3 through the Crowsnest Pass and out onto the prairies. Just
east of Medicine Hat I turned south through Cypress Hills to just north of the
American border, and then rode the small lightly traveled highway east to Winnipeg.
I highly recommend this tour through the mountains and across the prairies.
The only difficulty is the tunnels in the Fraser Canyon, especially the China
Bar tunnel, which is 2000 feet long and curves in the middle. In my opinion
too dangerous to ride the roadway. There is a walkway on the left hand side,
but it’s very difficult as it’s a little too narrow to push one’s bike, so one
has to ride, bouncing back and forth between the cement wall on one side and
the iron railings on the other, while the traffic roads a few feet to one’s
right. Not a pleasant experience.
Anyway, I’m contemplating another trip this fall, and thought about the TCT
from Hope to Princeton. I was under the illusion that one could just get onto
the trail at Hope and have an easy ride to Brookmere, and then on to Princeton.
However I gather from your book that most of the TCT between Hope and the summit
is either closed or obliterated. I’m wondering if this is still the case, or
can one now ride it. Any information you can give me would be appreciated.
I’ve also been in touch with Great Explorations. They advise that there is or
will be a detour in the Myra Canyon so one can get through there. Do you have
any current information on this area? I thank you in advance for anything you
can tell me.
Lorne Harris Victoria, B.C.
August 4, 2004
Louise Middlemiss louise@idabellake
Accommodations for Rent at Idabel Lake.
Due to the closure of McCulloch Lake Resort, I have had a few people contact
me for accommodations. I have available a private cabin with a 2 bedroom suite
next to our residence attached by a balcony and can also do some sort of meal
package if needed. A basement suite next door can also be used for bigger groups.
Please email me for more info. Only 4 km from the KVR.
August 4, 2004
Dan, My daughter and I are set to ride the KVR trail starting at Midway in early
September. We are wondering about the feasibility of riding a loop: Midway,
Penticton, Okanagan Falls Osoyoos and then ride the paved road ((3) back to
Midway. Is this feasible? Or is the paved road too steep? If so, what do you
recommend? We'll be taking camping gear and panniers, light two man tent, food,
etc. We're in no hurry, plan to take a leisurely ride and camp. I assume there
is no food availability between Beaverdell and Penticton? Typically, what is
the weather like in early to mid Sept.? I know we have to come prepared for
rain showers. Also, I believe a detour trail has been built around the Myra
Canyon and her burnt trestles (sad) is it marked? How hard it it in terms of
grade? Can we do it with panniers and camping gear? Sure do appreciate your
help! Curt Conklin, Heather Conklin Provo UT, Lancaster CA
August 6, 2004
Hi Curt, September is the best time to go as weather is concerned(little rain,
lots of sun, not to hot). That's when I do my trips. The loop is do able but
you will need to detour around the missing bridges/trestles in Myra Canyon.
The ride down and up is steep and loose surfaced. You may be better off getting
Ed from Monashee to shuttle you around Myra. The highway out of Osoyoos is steep
and very long. Many do it every year but is does take a few hours to get to
the summit. If you do climb it, do it very early in the morning. I usually park
the bikes in a motel in Osoyoos and take the 4:00am bus to Midway get the car
and I'm back in bed in Osoyoos by 6:00am. There is a series of forestry roads
that have been connected to form a trail over the top of Myra canyon. There
was a 1 km section that had to be built to bridge two of the logging roads.
Last time I looked at the route was back in '93 when the bridge over West Fork
Canyon Creek became impassible. Not the greatest route but better grade then
the alternative of riding down to Kelowna. Have a great trip.
August 8, 2004
Dan, Sounds like a Jim-dandy set of ideas. How do I get in touch with Ed at
Monashee? The Motel at Osoyoos and the bus ride sounds like the winner for us.
Thanks. I have and have read your book, . . . unless we have a sadistic experience,
like maybe a grizzly charge (I have spray) or a close encounter with Mother
Moose, we'll be back to do some of the other sections, especially the small
spur sections that are in the wilderness areas.
It sure would be nice if the government would buy out the property owners and
make this trail do-able from one end to the other. It would do wonders for tourism,
that is for sure. From the sound of it, I sure wouldn't want to do it without
your book in hand. Actually, I am going to scan in the maps and the text for
the Carmi Section, laminate them and put them in my map pouch on my front handbar
bag. More convenient.
I'll drop you a line and let you know how we enjoyed our trip. And oh yeah,
the Olympic 3 power 3.2 megapixel pixie cam is going right in that same bag!
Got some great picts from mid October trip down the length of the Trail of the
Coeur d'Alene last fall. Thanks for all you do for rail trail cycling! Curt
August 2, 2004
Washout north of Kingsvale
Hey all, just got in
from disturbing some good old KVR dust. If heading north from Kingsvale towards
Merritt, the washout's a tad nasty as it's been very dry 'n sandy...but very do-able.
Perhaps shoulder your bike for the few obvious metres where there's no trail left....well....except
down.....the water's fresh!
Cheers, see you out there! Steve
July 27, 2004
ATV use of TC Trail damaging the surface
On July 7, 2004, I cycled from Osprey Lake, B.C. to Princeton, B.C. and found
that heavy use of ATVs on the trail is damaging the trail surface. ATV use loosens
the surface and turns it from a very hard compact surface into loose gravel
which makes for extremely difficult cycling. At several points along the trail
I measured between 1 and 2 inches of loose gravel on the trial surface. This
makes for very heavy cycling with a fully loaded bike.
One company called Kettle Valley Scenic ATV Excursions is actually using the
trail for its business and is using ATVs on the the TC trail extensively to
Kettle Valley Scenic ATV Excursions
RR#1 Site 11E Comp 44
Princeton, British Columbia
The next day, I found a similar situation west of Summerland where the trail
starts west of the Steam Train tracks where ATV use has created heavy gravel
on the trail which made for very difficult cycling. I have cycled from Castlegar
to Hope, so I know what a good trail surface is.
Unless ATV use of the TC Trail is terminated, the trail will soon be impassable
for all but the most powerful cyclists. Is that what we want??
Regards, Neil Honkanen Victoria, B.C.
July 25, 2004
Tony Jongedijik www.mountainviewbnb.com
B&B in Hope
Hi Dan I found your website on the net while doing a bit of research for one
of our guests from Holland. My wife Joyce and I run a bed and breakfast in Hope,B.C.
and most of our business is from Europe. We have had a great number of guests
that expressed an interest in doing the Kettle Valley railway by mountain bike
and I have on one or two occasions given them our own bikes. They were very
enthusiastic and loved the ride. Next month I will have a special section on
our website devoted to mountain biking in and around this area. Please include
us in your data base. Our website is: www.mountainviewbnb.com
Thanks and regards. Tony & Joyce Jongedijk
July 14, 2004
Prairie Valley Station to Faulder
Dan I would first like to thank you for your excellent work in putting together
your book on cycling the Kettle Valley Railway. I am sure that thousands of
people have benefited and enjoyed cycling the KVR due to your research and obvious
love for the trail and the KVR. The group of us, are hoping to ride from Pentiction
to Spenses Bridge this September 2004. In June 2004 I drove the backroad from
Penticton to Princeton and as far as Tulameen to scout out some of the trail.
In question still is your reference in the third edition of your book as to
a trail along side the Railway tracks from Prairie Valley Station to Faulder.
I talked to a couple of cyclists on the trail in June who said that they were
not allowed to ride alongside the track from Prairie Valley Station to Faulder.
Do you know what the status is of this trail? Many Thanks Roy Allen and the
Over the Hill Gang
July 15, 2004
July 13, 2004
Re: Prairie Valley Station to Faulder
There was a trail following off on land along the track right of way (not right
beside the tracks). Some of this trail went through land of a local land owner
who had a campground for cyclists. Seems the campground ceased to function and
the land was sold. The trail might have gone the way of the campground. I have
yet to get out there this year to find out what happened. The steam railway
does not want anyone riding or walking along the tracks for obvious safety reasons.
Harvey Leroux firstname.lastname@example.org
B&B Between Nelson and Salmo
Are there any places to stay (inexpensive) just north of Ymir
July 11, 2004
2005 youth expedition
I wonder if you could help me with my planning for the above. I have led numerous
youth expeditions in Canada and the USA. I am fascinated by the Kettle Valley
Trail. My plan is to mountain bike and wilderness trek over a period of one month.
The young people will be selected in the UK and they will expect a real challenge
on the expedition.Clearly the gradient is not demanding considering the nature
of the trail and I would look to cover the 600 kms. Realistically how long would
you estimate it would take to cover this distance ? In view of the historic nature
of the trail, etc I can assure you that it wouldn't be a question of head down
and blast the trail ! But I do want to ensure that the youngsters are stretched.
Any help you can give me would be appreciated.
July 11, 2004
July 10, 2004
Re:2005 youth expedition
Hi Clive, Tours I guide take 15 days to cover the distance from Castlegar to
Hope which is 800 km. Average day is about 55 km (3.5 - 4 hours on the bike).
When my wife and I do it by ourselves we average about 77 km a day, though usually
long days. Most tours keep the average day's travel in the 55 - 70 km range.
Accommodations usually define the daily distance more then any other factor.
Hope this helps, Have a great trip, Dan
Seattle- PI story on the KVR
Hi Dan, It was nice to talk to you 10 days ago. I thought you might like to
see the finished product.
Here is the link to the Seattle-PI story. Thanks for your input. Regards, Anne
July 3, 2004
Penticton to Hope
Hello Dan, I'm sure that you're inundated with emails but I thought that I'd take
a chance writing to you as you are the authority on the KVR. My son and I had
a wonderful trip the summer before last going from Penticton to Midway. Now that
he's 14 he has has heart set on the two of us (or more) cycling from Penticton
to Hope. I have heard that from Brodie on down is pretty tough going and I wondered
if you could offer any information on that. Also, we would need to find our way
back to Penticton and I wonder if there is some kind of shuttle that you know
of. I am now buying my 4th copy of your book as it seams that once they're lent
out they don't come back. Thanks for everything that you've provided so far and
I hope you're having a great summer. Kind regards, John Wright
July 6, 2004
Re. Penticton to Hope
Hi John, Brodie to Hope is much more disjointed then the rest of the trail but
is not to be missed. The 3rd edition of the book still describes the trail quite
well. The only piece missing is a new trail from Portia to Carolyn Mines road
that follows forestry and pipeline roads. This trail is signed and starts just
after crossing Boston Bar Creek bridge at Portia. Ed of Monashee is offering
shuttle services along the whole of the KVR. Ed Kruger email@example.com
Monashee Adventure Tours 1-888-76CYCLE (2-9253) 470 Cawston Ave. Kelowna. B.C.
V1Y 9V8 There are other shuttle companies around (though they come and go quite
quickly, I give up trying to keep up with them) and they can be found by contacting
the info centre at Hope. I find it's much cheaper just to catch the GreyHound
back. I usually just lock the bikes in a motel room or campground office and
catch the bus back and get the car. Have a great trip,
July 6, 2004
Re: Penticton to Hope
Thanks for such an informative response. What a great idea. One of us can take
the bus back for the truck and the rest can hang out with the kids in Hope.
July 2, 2004
Ken Kure firstname.lastname@example.org
My daughter and I are planning to do a section of the KVR this month. We only
have 1 vehicle so pick up may be a problem. I have the 3rd edition of your book,
but there is so much to read. I have only about 3 days and need some advice
of the best stretches to go on. Probably will not carry all our gear - rather
just day packs. Can you please give me advice on what would be the biggest bang
for our limited time ? Thanks, Ken Kure and daughter Taylor
June 27, 2004
New B&B in Hope
Hi Dan We are a new B&B in Hope and have had several requests for accommodations
in the past couple of years from Canadian mountain bikers as well as our European
travelers Re: the Kettle valley railway. I was able to get a lot of info: of
the internet and would like our B&B to be included in your database. I am an
avid mountain biker myself and we have some great trails just outside our door.
In particular the trail from Sunshine Valley to the silvertip glacier. Please
visit our website for more info; www.mountainviewbnb.com
Thanks in advance and happy biking
June 15, 2004
Update on the KVR trail
Hello again Dan, Some updates on the KVR from my recent rides:
On May 30th I went on the Crosstrails tour of the KVR from Brookmere-Merritt.
Very pretty scenery along here and the railbed is in good overall shape, just
a little overgrown in spots. It is possible to ride to KM 32.2 and exit to the
Coldwater road via the private farm road as the book says. I personally spoke
to the farmer and he has no problem with bikers using this road.
Last weekend (June 12-13) I rode the KVR/C&W from Myra station-Grand Forks.
From Myra station looking West towards the Myra canyon there is a Forestry sign
stating "Park Closed" FYI.
East of Myra station the railbed was in very good shape but there were some
massive puddles to navigate.
MCulloch lodge is now back in the previous owner's hands and I gather they are
receiving guests again.
At KM 81.2 there is a wonderful new bridge spanning Wilkinson creek so no need
for a detour via logging roads nowadays.
Paul Lautard's stop is nice and looks well maintained but no water (the pump
was padlocked) and no sign of Paul on the day I went through.
Southbound from Zamora rd (KM 30.4) the owner has fenced the railgrade off entering
his field with an official "Agricultural use only sign". Beyond this sign the
grade looked grassed/tilled over. This situation requires a detour via Highway
33 to Kettle River Provincial Park at KM 24.9.
East of Rock Creek, the Bubar road detour (KM 13.4) is no longer needed as the
KVR (TCT labeled) right of way is now open to cyclists through to the Ingram
bridge. It is very grassy and appears to be underused so I assume few are aware
of this! Just West of Midway (Eastbound) the Pope & Talbot parking lot route
is still unsigned! I took the highway into Midway instead as there is no obvious
route through there.
C & W: East of Midway is great, with some wet patches near Greenwood. Route
is continously well marked with TCT signage all the way into Grand Forks.
Highlights?: The Rhone Canyon on the KVR and the descent from Eholt into Grand
Hope this helps a few of you.
Once I do Brodie-Hope later this Summer I will have completed the entire C&W/KVR!
Thanks for the great book Dan. Nick
June 13, 2004
Barb Robinson email@example.com
summerland to princton
We just completed this section, you can bike from Prairie Valley Station to
faulder along the KVR rail, no need to detour on to the road,expect heavy pea
gravel in some areas, and the track is still in place as well.If you stay at
the Heritage House B&B in sumerland, Mike will let you leave your vehicle there.
Jellicoe Station Inn B&B is a wonderful place to stay. Les & Darleen have a
wealth of info on the trails, they are equipped to pick you up along the trail
if needed, Darleen is a fantastic cook and will make you supper, a delicious
breakfast as well as lunches for the trail. They also have cabins and camping.
a great place to stay on the trail.
June 10. 2004
DiAnne Hewitt firstname.lastname@example.org
The Easton Lake Family
If you are the husband, wife and son biking the Iron Horse trail and staying
at Easton Lake State Park Memorial weekend, drop us a line.
I'm glad we chatted and hope you found this website. This is an awesome network
of rails to trails. I think your family would enjoy it. We are doing the section
of the C &W from Castlegar to Grand Forks this weekend (6-11-04).
We will be doing Penticton to Brookmere at a later date this summer. Enjoy!
June 9, 2004
I am planning on going on the Nelson-Salmo leg this summer. Would prefer to
go with someone. If interested e-mail me. Am also looking for a file to d/l
containing waypoints to use in a GPS.
June 8, 2004
McCullouch Lake Resort
My Wife and I are planning a KVR ride from McCullouch Lake to Midway in Aug'04.
Now that the resort is been taken over by a boys & girls club does anyone
know of a B&B or lodging (not interested in camping)in the same area as
June 7, 2004
Looking for information on this trail. If plans go right I will be riding it
in July (mid to end). I hope to have a GPS at that time and would like to know
if someone has a route file that I could have.
Also if anyone is intersted in buddying up for this trip please give me a shout.
June 2, 2004
C&W - Paulson to Castlegar
Hi Dan. The C&W railbed from Paulson to Castlegar is in good shape as of
May 25, 2004, But for the irritating wash-boarding effect of the ubiquitous
ATV, there has been no significant deterioration over 2003. Some brushing required,
particularly east of Farron, that trail volunteers will be on to this summer.
May 28, 2004
Trails BC News
Chilliwack River Valley Trans Canada Trail Challenge
Event: Sunday, July 11, 2004 - Chilliwack Lake to Lickman Rd. on the Rotary
Vedder River Trail.
cycle or horse ride along the Chilliwack River for a distance of 13 to 58 km
Chilliwack Lake to Lickman Road on the Rotary Vedder River Trail. A personal
13, 17, 24, 28, 37, or 58 km adventure/challenge.
information and registration forms, visit
the Trails BC website at:
We are still waiting for word from
the Premier’s Task Force regarding the start of the major fundraising and reconstruction
of the fire-damaged trestles. We will keep you informed as events progress.
meantime, the Trails BC Trestle and Trail Fund has received approximately
$17,000 in donations to help with the work that lies ahead.
We are also
please to let you know that we have received permission to construct a bypass
trail that will take travellers above the canyon utilizing existing forest
roads and about two kilometres of new trail. We have received permission from
BC Parks to construct about 700 metres of trail through a narrow section of the
Myra-Bellevue Protected Area. We have flagged the route and actual
construction could begin as early as May 25, weather permitting.
have a target completion date yet. The spring runoff and the recent rains will
have a major effect on the timetable for both safety and environmental reasons.
We will try
to keep you up-to-date via the Trails BC website at:
Kettle Valley Trail Cycle Tour - September, 2004
to Hope - Sept 6-19, 2004
A joint Trails BC - Great Explorations Project
Join Trails BC and Great Explorations as we bicycle 650
kilometres of the Trans Canada Trail on historic rail grades across southern
British Columbia. This FUNdraising event can be tackled in one, two or three
first two are six-day jaunts while the third is a mere three days in the
information and registration forms, visit
the Trails BC website at:
Renew your Trails BC membership today!
relies on your support for much of our work. 100 percent of our work is
presently done by volunteers, but with the busy summer ahead we may have to
hire part-time staff to help free up our volunteers for trail work. We also
want to be able to help offset the out-of-pocket expenses that are incurred
building and maintaining the Trans Canada Trail.
membership is very important to us in helping to show the support for the Trans
Canada Trail in British Columbia. Your donations are tax deductible.
member volunteers are covered by personal accident insurance while working on
recognized trail projects.
also offer an Associate Membership with the opportunity to display your logo
and information on the Trails BC website. It may also be worth noting that our
site is currently averaging over 775 page views or 7,000 hits per day. A link
to your business website could pay dividends well above the $100.00 per year
information and membership forms, visit
the Trails BC website at:
If you have
any comments, questions or additional information or news items, please e-mail
Trails Society of British Columbia
- 1367 West Broadway
VANCOUVER BC V6H 4A9
(604) 737-3188 - Fax: (604) 738-7175
May 27, 2004
Princeton to Brookmere
Cycled this section over the May long weekend. Trail is in great shape. Most
interesting sections are Princeton to Coalmont (great cycling by the river through
some mountain gorges/ ochre cliffs/ big tunnels) and beyond Brookmere (Cold
Water River is beautiful). Middle section from Coalmont to Brookmere is mostly
agricultural area - in sections, the farms have moved their fences to right
beside the right-of-way so there's nowhere to get off and sit down. Learn to
love ATV's and trail bikes in this section, as there's no escaping them. I'd
avoid weekends on this stretch in future. Definitely recommend the Coalmont
Hotel Pub - the beer goes down easy, and the food is slow, basic and great.
Thanks to Peter Jack, the proprietor, for some interesting tales and great refreshments.
May 18, 2004
Don Harris email@example.com
We are planning a trip in the first week of July from Midway to Penticton. Will
the burned area be rideable by then? If not what is you opinion about the trip
from Midway to Castlegar? We will be going with about 12 Boy Scouts and 5 adults
and are looking for good cycling, scenery, and vehicle accessible camp sites.
May 15, 2004
Accommodations at Idabel Lake
Hi Dan...... Just went over the "Cycling the KVR" site and was wondering How
can I get added to the list of accommodations? I live at Idabel Lake and will
have a 2 bedroom suite/cabin available with meal packages when needed. The resort
here has been mostly sold and is private now and the possibility of McCulloch
Lake Resort closing it's doors permanently in June, there will be a great need
of some kind of accommodations for the cyclists. We are 4 km away from the Railbed,
and a scenic trail leading back the next day passed three lakes I will guide
them personally. Hope to hear from you, Cheers, Louise
May 18, 2004
May 3, 2004
Re: Accommodations at Idabel Lake
Hi Dan......... I would sure love to be on the Website. I have a web site that
you can put on as a link or whatever, it's: www.idabellake.com
- special packages for cyclists. and a contact number: Louise @ 250-765-0228
for bookings or email at firstname.lastname@example.org Thanks for your help........
Trails BC ride
Hi Dan, As you may have heard, we are organizing a large Ride for this September
with Trails BC; it will be a fundraiser for the trail and we are hopeful of getting
up to 100 people per stage. There is information on the Trails BC web site, and
we'll have a full-color brochure out this week. Are you able to join on this trip?
Let me know if you have anywhere you think we should mail brochures to. It promises
to be a great event?
#305-1510 West 1st Ave.
Vancouver, BC V6J 4S3
explore your world www.great-explorations.com
April 28, 2004
Steve Stewart from Midway
Campsite here. Could you add midwaycampsite.bc.ca to your listings. Lots of information
on this one.
April 18, 2004
The Allure of Cycling the Kettle Valley Railway
If you are thinking of exploring the KVR perhaps you might enjoy reading a humorous
account of a mid-life crisis adventure along this wonderful trail.
Enjoy the ride!
April 18, 2004
Nicholas Lanfear, email@example.com,
Galloping Goose rail-trail
I'm not sure if you have thought of including the above trail in your next book.
I know you currently have other rail-trails in your current edition (K&S, etc).
I'm sure a lot of your readers would be very interested.
The Galloping Goose trail starts in Victoria and runs past Sooke to an abandoned
mining camp called Leechtown. The total length (paved and gravel) is 55km and
it is "doable" in a day.
The path is on an old railbed that carried people from Victoria to Sooke in the
20s. There is a wide range of scenery, the highlight of which are the seaviews
near Sooke. Signage is excellent and the surface well maintained. The main downsides
to this trail are the frequent road crossings, particularly at the Victoria end.
A nice point to everyone is there are many paved access points and the trail is
accessible YEAR ROUND! I know I hate waiting for the KVR to be snow-free. There
is another old rail-trail called the "Lochside regional trail" that you can ride
from the Swartz Bay ferry terminal to the Galloping Goose trailhead (29km). That
way no ferry waits....
The Capitol Regional District has a good website with maps and points of interest
along both trails. Nick
April 13, 2004
Jim Stolth, Backroads Bike Shop
Just a note to let folks know that the TCT / KVR at Princeton is open for business.
The Vermilion Trails Society are the stewards covering the area from Brookmere
through to Osprey Lake (113km). The trestles are all in tact, decked and handrails,
the views are spectacular. Jim Stolth Backroads Bike Shop Princeton and Tulameen
April 12, 2004
Does anybody know of anybody else doing a Penticton to Chute Lake shuttle now
that Vista Treks no longer is around?
April 9, 2004
Your message re the C&W was just posted yesterday, along with several months of
other messages from people -- problems with the website, I presume.
If riding from Castlegar to Christina Lake, I would recommend camping at the siding
location formerly known as "Tunnel". From the perspective of an uphill ride from
Castelgar, you are roughly half-way to Christina Lake; you will have an hour or
so uphill remaining to Farron, then it's easy going downhill to Christina.
Tunnel is a large site which opens up approx 50 yards west of the west portal
of Bulldog Tunnel. The site is very flat for tents, and large enough to turn a
vehicle + trailer in one motion. It is west-facing for best sunlight in the evening,
and has among the best views across Dog Creek valley to Mount Faith and Mount
Gladstone. If it is a hot day, you can cool off in the tunnel (we often see deer
cooling down in the tunnel; later in the year, a bear comes to nibble on the apples
from the old roadmaster's tree) or some shady spots just west of the camp location;
otherwise there can be pleasant breezes and updrafts from the valley. There is
no ground water around the site, hence, seldom are there bugs. There are several
fire pits around the site and it's a very safe location to have a fire; lots of
windfall/firewood in the bush behind the site.
Water is available at the east portal of Bulldog Tunnel; this water that flows
from over top of and down the sides of the east portal is the "headwater" of Brooklyn
Creek (it's delicious, we bottle/drink it frequently). It has been safe to drive
a vehicle through the tunnel for the past 12 years; we've gone through numerous
times on bike or by vehicle, without a flat, despite large amounts of track ballast
that wasn't removed by the railway. Depending on your vehicle and your nerves,
you can't go too much distance beyond the east portal of the Bulldog Tunnel in
a vehicle; there is one washout (traversable, but careful pls!) followed by a
very large rock fall (walk/carry bikes across only). That said, the views are
superb from this rock fall area.
If you have lots of time -- say, on the heels of an mid-afternoon arrival -- you
could explore the old switchbacks above the west portal. Standing at the concrete
foundations of old railway buildings you can still see the faint outlines of the
switchbacks, including some masonry rockwork. Once you're up a 100-150 feet or
so from the railway grade the going is easy, with lots of wide open spaces. If
you're lucky, you'll come across several sets of old railway wheels (VERY old
-- the cast, spoked kind common to railways at the turn of the century) from a
wreck at the end of a switchback.
An alternate to Tunnel is Farron, at the summit of the C&W. A distant second to
Tunnel in my opinion, since it lacks the big views, air circulation, extended
sunlight, running water (though not far to Dog Creek), often has bugs (standing
water nearby) and can be dusty/noisy if the (early morning) logging trucks and
ATVs are using the nearby P&T road. It does have more/better shady spots if it's
a scorcher on the ride, which could be a plus. There are several interesting remains
of old railway buildings, a water stand (inoperable) for the trains, a few fire
pits, it's as flat as Tunnel, and easy to turn a vehicle + trailer in one motion.
Have a good trip; if you have a moment, let me know how it went. Regards, Mark
nb - attached a pic of my daughter at Farron, and one from May, looking south
up the Dog Creek valley toward Mt Gladstone; the valley and the railway grade
runs north-south until Bulldog Tunnel, where it shifts to an orientation (east-west)
that parallels Lower Arrow Lake
April 7, 2004
I have your book on the KVR, and am thoroughly enjoying it. I've been planning
on doing the ride from Midway to Penticton,with my teenage grandson, around
the end of this May, but after getting a positive, what I thought was "authentic"
report, that there is a detour around the Myra Canyon section to Chute Lake/Penticton,
heard at the CyclePath shop in Kelowna today, that a detour is not available.
(The entire area is closed, and helicopter logging on the burned is underway
now, so this chap said.)
My original information was, " You will have to travel down to Kelowna on Myra
road, then on to June Springs road and back up Little White road to the KVR
Now, Myra Rd. I can find on maps, and even June Springs Rd, but Little White
Are you aware of what the actual situation on the ground is at that Kelowna
end of the KVR ride, from Myra, around to Chute Lake? If it is not too problematic
for you, I would appreciate hearing from you on this matter, or reference to
someone who might more certainly know.
Do you know what the current situation is at this Kelowna end of the ride? Is
a detour in place around the Myra Canyon section, and if so, is there a map
of the detour available, online or anywhere?
April 13, 2004
April 5, 2004
Re: Myra Detour
I am informed by BCTrails, that a detour is to be constructed, partly old logging
road and partly new, over the top from Myra to bypass the burned trestles. That
won't be done by the time of my ride at the end of May, however. In any case,
I'm going to proceed with my "lone wolf" ride from Midway on the May 24th long
weekend, barring the unforseen with the weather. I'm also going to attempt the
Myra, McCulloch, June Springs, Little White detour. I'll let you know how it
goes. (I'm told this route is 12.4 km long and climbs 600 metres from Kelowna
back to the KVR railbed. "Ouch!" ) I'm allowing six days of easy riding to do
some photography as well. Real life may vary. :~)
Dustin Rand firstname.lastname@example.org
Cycling with Children
We are considering a two week trip on the KVR this summer with our 15 month
old daughter. We have a trailer that she would be riding in and wondered if
the conditions of the trails would make this possible? Have you heard of anyone
pulling a trailer with a child on the KVR or are we just crazy? Our main concerns
is the trail surface being too bumpy, narrow or numerous conditions that would
require us to lift the bike and trailer over various obstacles. Thanks
March 30, 2004
myra Canyon bypass
Do you have any idea about a bypass around the canyon for this year? We have
cycled the route from McCullogh to Penticton the past two summers, would like
to continue the annual event somehow. thanks for you help Peter.
March 27 2004
Biking for toddlers
I am planning a trip on the KVR this summer and have read a little bit about
the fire damage. Can you give me an update or point me in the right direction
to find out how much of the trail has detoured or damaged trail? Also, is the
trail paved or is it a mountain biking trail on old railroad ballast? We have
a 1yr old who we would pull in a two wheel trailer. Is the trail rough? Would
a child get tossed around too much on the rough bike path? Have others taken
their kids in trailers on these trails?
March 12, 2004
steve baril email@example.com
I am interested in cycling from spenses bridge to merritt sometime this spring.
Can this be done in a day, considering the many detours around the indian reserves???
how much time in the saddle is required?? And does anyone know if either of
the reserves are letting people through yet?? Cheers!! steve and lori
March 5, 2004
Latest KVR Video release, (Princeton Subdivision.)
This is to inform you that my latest KVR video is out,(as of Monday March 8th
2004.) Silent Subdivisions 3 The Princeton Subdivision covers the railbed from
Brookmere, going eastbound to Penticton. Total footage is 5 hours in length,
two tapes in SP mode. Footage was taken in the years 1999,2000,2001 with some
1994 footage included.
WHAT YOU GET - Brookmere to Thalia trestle, 1994 footage of the trestle before
it was burned by vandals. Then go through to Manning, crossing the Otter Creek
bridges and on to Otter Lake. Tulameen to Coalmont in detail and on down to
Princeton. Continuous uninterrupted footage of the Belfort Loops from Belfort
to Jura is then seen. Then it continues eastbound to the Erris tunnel,Dry Creek,
Siwash Creek and Jellicoe. After a look around Jellicoe it continues on through
Osprey Lake. On the way from there to Faulder the footage is slightly edited.
The now removed bridges are shown, then you get 1994 footage showing them still
in place. After arriving at Faulder you will then go on board the KVSR steam
train. Continuous footage of the train ride from Prairie Valley to Canyon view
From Canyon View you get a detailed look at the Trout Creek bridge near Summerland.
The rest of the footage shows highlights of the railbed down into Penticton
Yard. SPECIAL BONUS FOOTAGE of the Copper Mountain Sub is presented starting
at Allenby. Then a detailed close up look at the Silmilkameen Canyon tunnels.
(These are the tunnels seen from across the canyon on highway 3.) I can only
do a limited number of tapes per run so get to me now before this run sells
You can find the ordering info at www.kvart.net ,go to the "documents/videos"
page to get your copy. If all goes well then the Carmi Subdivision video should
be out in the fall.
March 1, 2004
KVR fietsen voor Nederlanders
Wij hebben voor 2004 tweeweekse reizen over de KVR.
AIn kleine groepjes een avontuurlijk Canada ontdekken.
Kijk voor meer gegevens op www.footloosecanada.com
Feb 27, 2004
b+b on the kvr
Hi im the Webmistress of www.jellicoestationinn.com , just wondering if we could
link up, i could put your site on my day trips/adventure page, and perhaps you
could post our likn somewhere. Also working on a new site www.kettlevalleyatv.com,
a new luxury atv tour coming to princeton, no dare devils, just low speed excursions.
Thanks, hope to hear from you Christine
Feb 21, 2004
Our family has been planning to cycle the KVR from Midway to Penticon for a
couple of years now. After last summers tragic fires that destroyed some of
the tressels is it still possible to cycle the myra canyon? Or, is there an
alternate route, possibly a shuttle service around that section? We would be
greatfull if you could help us out with any info you may have, Thankyou Andrew
Feb, 18, 2004
Linda Wood firstname.lastname@example.org
A group of us are planning to ride the C&W section in July. We have ridden
the Carmi division and from Brookmere to Penticton. We would like to do this
with vehicle supported camping. Can you suggest where to break the trip from
Castlegar to Christina? Water would not be such an issue because the van would
bring it. Any advice is welcome. Thanks Linda
Feb 16, 2004
Vikki Gardner email@example.com
Be sure to get your Kettle Valley Railway Bike Trail Passport/Travel log before
your start your journey. You'll have lots of fun collecting the over 240 free
ink stamps from a wide variety of business, reataurants, B&B, shops, golf courses,
pubs and museums all along the KVR/Trans Canada Trail from Hope to Castlegar.
Visit us at www.kvrbiketrailpassport.com
Feb 13, 2004
Craig Henderson, Vista Treks
Kettle Valley Trail
As you know, last summer's Okanagan Mountain forest fire burned 14 Myra Canyon
trestles, severing the link of the Kettle Valley Railway trail.
Best estimates are that the link will not be reestablished until the spring
80% of the revenue of my company was due to customers wanting to access these
amazing trestles. The loss of Myra Canyon is going to result in a big loss of
revenue. That factor, coupled with a huge hike in liability insurance rates
in 2003 and a new fee system by the province on the commercial use of crown
land has resulted in the decision to close Kettle Valley Trail Tours & Shuttle.
We were doing well after four full seasons of operation and surely would have
continued service had it not been for the combined affect of those factors.
However, it does not seem possible to recover a moderate profit over the next
several seasons given the overhead.
Anyway, we fortunately were able to raise about $8000 for trail enhancement
over the past four years, INCLUDING over $2500 for the trestle fund last fall
through t-shirt sales (we still have some pins and t-shirts by the way if you
are interested, albeit most sizes are long sleeve XL and XXL, with a few small
ad kid size short sleeve. No medium or large available. Call or e-mail for details
Karen and I are now focussing our energies on filling another void in our community.
This spring we will open Village Grounds Coffeehouse in Naramata. Please come
by if you're in the area!
Ed Kruger of Monashee Adventure Tours in Kelowna will continue to operate KVR
services. I highly recommend Ed if you wish to explore other points of the trail.
I thank you for your support in recent years and I'm sure we'll all watch with
interest as the trail is reestablished.
Feb 9, 2004
I was wondering if any of the bridges from Chute Lake to Penticton were lost
in the fires of last summer. We are planning to cycle this route in the summer,
and we were wondering if there are any problems.
Feb 5, 2004
we are planning to ride the carmi section from midway as a loop tour up to chute
lake and down to pentiction and osoyos and back to midway in june. what areas
have been affected by the fire and are there alternative routes around the damage?
particularily concerning the myra trestle. thanks, donna peterson
Feb 4, 2004
steve baril firstname.lastname@example.org
Coquhallia to Penticton
I am interested in a ride this summer along the kvr from the highway toll booths
to princeton, summerland, penticton. I sure would appreciate advice from any
person that has done this route, ie things to look out for, places to stay and
eat, etc.... Is this route readily cycleable, and are there major re-routes,
obstacles, etc.... Appreciate any advice!!! sincerely steve baril
Feb 3, 2004
66.7 Roxy's B&B - take out, no longer in service Replace with Jellicoe Station
Inn - hosts Les and Darleen Sirokai 250-295-0160 Overlooking Chain Lake, 3 B&B
rooms with extra beds, 3 baths, games room. Cabins and tenting area with full
outdoor kitchen and showers, can house large groups. email: email@example.com
113.4 - put ... now a Subway and an office. (not a Real Estate office) Princeton
Accommodations - link to town website at www.town.princeton.bc.ca and go to
accommodation from there - wait a couple of weeks as we are currently changing
116.2 - 128.2 - Washout Updates - All washouts have been repaired and are now
passable. We will check again in the Spring and let you know if there are any
changes Coalmont Hotel - change to: The Historic Coalmont Hotel is open 7 days
a week. Enjoy the historic dining room, heritage rooms and gold panners pub.
Call 250-295-6066 for more information
Tulameen 151.0 - 167.4 - information is incorrect - get new information from
Jim at the Backroads Bike Shop
Feb 1, 2004
The Heritage House B&B
Hi Dan, My name is Michael Walker, owner operator of The Heritage House B&Bc.1907
in Summerland. We just purchased your 3rd edition of Cycling the Kettle Valley
Railway book, and were happy to see our Bed & Breakfast listed. We have had
great success with your listing in the book and if you would, kindly update
our info. We no longer have a Fax number, but have a sight of our own on the
net. www.heritagehouse1907.com If you are planning a 4th edition, would you
kindly consider our changes? Thank you so much. The book is a great read....
Best regards ....Michael Walker..
Jan 31, 2004
Coquihallia to Penticton
I am planning a ride from the toll booths on the coquihalla to penticton and
could really use some info from anyone that has done it. is the rail grade in
good shape and how many obstacles (gates,detours) are there to worry about.
we would be doing it with another couple, and would need acomodations on route
at tulameen or coal,mont, and also between princeton and summerland. thank you!!!
steve baril firstname.lastname@example.org
Jan 18, 2004
your book and other things
Wanted to let you know that i have enjoyed your book very much.... it is a real
gem. I am not a cyclist and here I am in Nova Scotia... my interest is in the
abandoned railways of southern BC..... and you have certainly added a lot to
my knowledge.... I am probably a bit more interested in the VV&E than the KVR
but it is all fascinating... I had not really known about the Myra area until
i read the book,, unfortunately of course much of that is in ruins now......
I was wondering... you didnt really give the details by map of the VV&E... and
on the KVR maps you didnt show where the two joined at Princeton... I wonder
if you know of a map that would show that junction.... or at what mileage on
the KVR that was.... you mention the junction in the VV&E section but not a
KVR milepoint for it.
The other one similar would be at Hope where the VV&E joined with the CNR to
continue with running rights past Chilliwack before branching off on its own
to New Westminster. I was trying to figure if there would be any traces of that
junction........ I suppose even with the demise of the VV&E, even the KVR should
have had a junction with CNR still active there.....
I know your thing isnt so much the history.. though obviously you are interested
in that as well..... I have read that only one VV&E train ever went through
the Coquihalla... right after JJHill died and after that they gave up on it...
though they did operate to Hope from the west.. and of course the area to the
east of Coquihalla as well....
I would love to be out there at least walking, if not riding the railbeds......
By the way I am a British Columbian who has been here in Nova Scotia since the
early 70's.... you have made me more than ever want to come home..!! Thanks
for a great book....
Jan 19, 2004
Re: your book and other things
Much of the VV&E is on private property and therefore not accessible by bike
or hiking and really did not fit the scope of the book. That's why you find
there is not the detail in the maps. As for Princeton, thanks for pointing that
out. I guess I missed that one. The VV&E lies under Highway 3 all the way into
Princeton. The Highway breaks from following the VV&E at the east bridge abutment
of the Similikameen River. The Highway takes a less oblique angle to the river
then the original railway bridge. The KVR connected to the VV&E just past crossing
Highway #3, shown on the map below.
I have a better map drawn for the next edition of the town of Hope that would
show the connection of the VV&E. The VV&E (KVR) connected to the CNR just after
crossing the Coquihallia River and just before criss-crossing the CNR mainline.
Another book you would be interested in is Joe Sumuin's Kettle Valley Railway
Mileboards. It would have the answers to your questions. I have copied the information
on how to get the book below.
Glad you enjoyed the book, Dan
KETTLE VALLEY RAILWAY MILEBOARDS
A Historical field guide to the KVR by Joe Smuin
Published by NORTH KILDONAN PUBLICATIONS
Publisher of CANADIAN RAILWAY MODELLER MAGAZINE.
Retail Price: $39.95 CDN
This book is a 200+ page book detailing the physical layout of the Kettle Valley
Railway. It contains never before published maps, photographs and historical
details. This book is a must-have for historically minded mountain bikers as
much as for Kettle Valley Railway buffs.
Orders for the book may be placed with the publisher at:
Fax: (204) 669-9821
Voice: (204) 668-0168
North Kildonan Publications
Box 99 Stn. F - 355 Henderson Hwy,
WINNIPEG, MANITOBA R2l 2A5
Jan 16, 2004
Erik Veenstra email@example.com
question about the fire damage and the possibility of biking on the KVR
Hello, I am Erik Veenstra from Holland (Europe). I have the following questions
and would be pleased by an answer?
How many kilometres of the KVR have been destroyed bij the woodfire?
Is it still possible to cycle on the burnt parts of the KVR and if not?
are there diversions for cyclists?
I'm planning to cycle the KVR this summer.
Does anyone know whether there's a bus going from Calgary to Sparwood or Cranbrook
and if so, how many hours is this trip and is it possible to take a bicycle as
luggage on the bus?
Thank you very much for answering these questions, I'm looking forward for this
Jan 14, 2004
Ed Kruger, Monashee Adventure Tours, www.monasheeadventuretours.com
Re: Myra Canyon bypass
Hello,Dan Yes I will be offering such a service for people. The transport would
be between the Myra and Gillard road accesses because Ruth is still in the park
and as of now I am not allowed in the park. If this changes I will let you know.
The cost is a minimum of $100 or $30 per person for 4 people or more.G.S.T. IS
ADDED TO THIS FEE. I will do an historical of the area on the transport.
Thanx for any assistance you can give me on letting people know of this service.
I AM HOPING FOR A GOOD SEASON WITH EXPANSION INTO OTHER PARTS OF THE K.V.R. Midway
to Brookmere for tours and Transport from Castlegar to Hope.
Thanx Ed Kruger Monashee Adventure Tours 1-888-76CYCLE (2-9253)
Jan 11, 2004
Hallo Dan, my name is hugo blank and I live in Germany. The reason for writing
you is that we are planning a biketrip in Canada. My girlfriend and me will come
to Calgary september 19th and then ride our bikes to Vancouver where we will leave
for home october 16th. Right now I am trying to put our route together and of
course we would like to go on the Kettle Valley Railway Trail, perhaps not all
the way but at least some of it. I would appreciate it very much if you could
help me out with some information.
How are trailconditions that time of the year? We are riding 28" bikes with 1.125"
tires, big enough for the trail?
We are experienced long distance race and touring riders and are used to camping
in shitty weather, I figure we might have to expect some cold nights out there
especially when crossing the rockies. Do you have some suggestions how to ride
and not use the big highways? Some links or even some kind of maps designed for
that kind of trip?
Well I think that`ll be enough for now .
I am looking forward for your answer, best regards hugo
Jan 7, 2004
Looking for friends and information
Myself and two friends (tony and judy) cycled the KVR from Midway to Penticton
this summer. We were just ahead of the fires by a day or two. We had smoke and
ash at McCullough and Chute Lakes. It was such a memorable trip. Myra Canyon was
awesome and I feel privledged to have ridden it. Along the way we met some very
nice people and had a great time. I lost everyones email addresses when my hard
drive crashed. If we met you we'd like to keep in contact. Especially Angelo and
Marty, you two were the greatest!!! Thanks for lunch.
My friend Judy and I (sans Tony) are planning on doing the section between Penticton
and Brookmere the middle of June.
We hope to see some of you there. And are looking forward to making new freinds.
AI see where there may be a shuttle service from Brookmere, that would be awesome!
If anyone has done that section and has any words of wisdom, feel free to email
Happy Trails and keep on keepin' on
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